Cork GAA Championship Proposals 2020 F.A.Q.
March 29, 2019
Cork GAA Championship Proposals 2020
Frequently asked Questions
Given the level of debate surrounding the Cork GAA 2020 Championship Proposals, the following document answers some of the questions currently exercising the minds of Club members. If you have any further queries, please let us know.
Do all proposals comply with County bye-law?
Bye-law changes to facilitate whatever option is chosen by the Clubs will be proposed at County Convention at the end of 2019. For example, bye-law 39 states… The Championship Grades shall be known as Senior, Premier Intermediate, Intermediate, Junior 'A', Junior 'B'. This bye-law would be clearly be out of date for 2020 and would be corrected at County Convention accordingly, along with any other amendments where necessary.
Do all proposals comply with General Rule?
All proposals were sent to Croke Park in advance of circulation and no issues were raised in terms of complying with General Rule.
Rule 6.21 County Championships (1) A County Committee shall organise its Championships on a Knock-Out, League, or a Combination of League and Knock-Out basis.
Also 6.22 a includes… “The period of time during which Senior Inter-County Players shall not be expected to fulfil Inter-Club Championship Fixtures prior to Inter-County Championship Games, in the same Code, shall be as follows: Senior Inter-County Championships: (1) All-Ireland Finals - maximum 17 days. (2) All other Games - maximum 10 days. A County Bye Law may specify a lesser period in each case.” There is no contravention here. Summer games could be played with the 10 day period, if required. Games are currently played well outside this window.
For example, Rule 6.22 c states that “Players who are not included in an Inter-County Senior Panel of twenty-six players, shall be available to their Clubs on the week-ends of National League and Senior Championship games.” Hence the inclusion of the matchday 26 as the reference point in Option C.
With regard to the awarding of four points and two points for wins, this clearly would require a deviation from Rule as outlined at Tuesday night’s board meeting. It would require a deviation from Rule 6.21(4) (a) League results shall be credited as follows: 2 points for a win, and one for a draw.
in accordance with Rule 3.59 (a) – Deviation from Rule. This will be pursued in the event of Option C being successful.
If any other issues arise subsequently, all avenues to seek a rule or bye-law change or deviation from rule will be explored in accordance with the mandate provided by Clubs. Ultimately, if all such efforts fail and any option selected is finally ruled out of order, the second choice option of Clubs will be implemented.
Can the vote be postponed in order to allow Clubs more time to consider the proposals?
No. As outlined at Tuesday night’s board meeting, the formats for 2020 must be confirmed before this year's Championship starts on Friday April 5th. Therefore, the vote has to take place on Tuesday night next to facilitate the start of the new formats in 2020. Clubs were notified in advance that a vote would follow, a week after last Tuesday night's meeting.
Does every Club have a vote?
Given the importance of the issues involved, the proposals are a matter for all GAA members in Cork. Therefore, all Clubs must be included in any vote.
Each member of Cork County Committee will have a vote. Clubs have one delegate per affiliation, i.e. one for football and one for hurling. If members cannot attend, a proxy member may attend in their place, if prior written notice is submitted. Voting for Options A to C will be by proportional representation. Voting for Grading will be 1 or 2.
“The County Committee shall be constituted of one named representative of each affiliated Senior or Intermediate Club participating in Championships, Junior clubs participating in the Junior Championship and which does not have a Senior or Intermediate team or teams participating in the Senior or Intermediate Championship, together with the elected or appointed Officers/Senior Administrator, two named delegates from each Divisional Committee, one named delegate from each of the following Committees - County Handball, County Youth Committee (Coiste na nÓg), County Primary Schools, County Post-Primary Schools, the County Referees’ Administrator, and ex-officio members provided under General Rule, all of whom, with the exceptions of the County Secretary, in that capacity, shall have voting rights.
Can the ‘status quo’ be voted for?
The ‘status quo’ is not an option. Votes will be taken on Options A, B and C as well as Grading 1 and 2. Given the desire for change throughout the consultation process, we decided that continuing current formats was not an option.
For how many years will the new formats be in place?
The formats presented will apply for two years, 2020 and 2021, with performances this year (2019) affecting Grading etc.
Do all options apply to both football and hurling?
Yes, both codes are treated similarly, apart from the transition to 48 teams over the next three years due to the difference in number of teams. The grading of teams would be different for each code, again where numbers are different. Clubs will nominate an option which will then be implemented similarly for both codes.
Is Option C ‘Summer Games’ the ‘thin end of the wedge’ in regard to the availability of County players?
No, not in our view. There is no reduction in the number Club games currently being played by Inter-county players across any of the Options. Options A and C allow for an increase in the number of Club games played by Inter-county players.
In 2022 when 48 teams will be involved in the four championship, will 2nd teams of clubs be included?
In 2022, the four grades will include 48 teams in total. All teams will be treated similarly, with grading being based on performances. Second teams will be treated no differently to first teams. So, yes, they will be included.
Does Option C ‘Summer Games’ affect Junior clubs?
No. All options refer to County Competitions only from Premier Senior to Intermediate. The vote will have no effect on the availability of County players to Junior Clubs.
Does the reference to County players in Option C ‘Summer Games’ include County U20, Intermediate or Minor Teams?
No. It refers to the named 26 on County Senior panels only.
What is meant by ‘Generous Qualification’ in Option C?
Generous qualification in Option C refers to the fact that 4 from 6 would qualify from the Group stage for the quarter-finals. Therefore, 66% of teams would progress to the knockout stages as opposed to 50% if it was a case of 2 teams qualifying from Groups of 4.
Why are there different points awarded for Summer games in Option C?
Playing for 2 points in the two summer games is to give those games a lower status in terms of points. It is a recognition that some Clubs, having lost their inter-county players, could make up any lost ground by gaining more points from games in which such players were available. By winning the games with a full team available, they would still progress in the championship. This change in the awarding of points requires a deviation in rule from Central Council which will be pursued should Clubs choose Option C. Half points would be awarded for a draw in all cases.
If there are draws in Group stage games, are their replays or are the points split?
There will be no replays in Group stages. Points are split in all cases.
Will lower ticket prices be in place for the Summer fixtures?
A full review of all ticket prices will follow this process. If more games are added to the programme, lower ticket prices and the extension of season tickets would obviously be considered.
How many teams will be relegated from Intermediate to Junior at end 2019?
Two teams will be relegated from Intermediate at the end of 2019 to allow us to reach a number of 60 Hurling and 52 Football teams, thus allowing a group format to introduced. As one alternative was to remove the grade in its entirety, it was considered fair to shave just two teams off the bloated number of 26.
When the Lower Intermediate teams are relegated to Junior at end 2021, will consideration be taken of Junior teams already in that grade?
Proposals on Junior Championships have not been considered yet, but yes if teams are to be re-graded from Intermediate to Junior, the effect on teams already in those divisions must be considered. By using the format we have presented, we will know almost all of the teams coming down well in advance as it is only the winners of Lower Intermediate (5th grade) that can save themselves in 2021. Therefore, Junior championships can be reviewed in the interim
Will all Group games be played at neutral venues?
Yes.
If teams within a Group are level on points, how will final placings be determined
If teams are level on points, then General Rule will apply.....
Except where provided for otherwise in these Rules, in County Bye-Law or in Competition Regulation, when Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
(i) Where two Teams only are involved - the outcome of the meeting of the two Teams in the previous game in the Competition;
(ii) Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For);
(iii) Highest Total Score For;
(iv) A Play-Off.
Exceptions: (1) In relation to means (ii) and (iii) above, if the accumulated scores of a team, so involved, are affected by a disqualification, loss of game on a proven objection, retirement or walk over, the tie shall be decided by a Play-Off.
Is it fair that within Option C, Clubs in the Intermediate A football Grade are provided with three group games while all other teams will have five groups games?
While not ideal, this is as a consequence of “carrying the four extra teams in the grade which would otherwise be relegated at end 2019. It will only be for two year and will change to five games in 2022.
Is there a danger that large numbers of players will be graded “upwards” to replace missing inter-county players and therefore be ineligible to play with their own team for the remainder of the season after the county players return?
This is a very fair question and if Clubs so desired, a change in rule with regard to regrading may be pursued. For example, players who currently play with Senior teams in relegation matches are not graded Senior as a consequence. A similar accommodation may be pursued in regard to the two mid-summer games (Rule 6.19)
In Grading 2, what points system will be in place to measure ‘past performance”?
See notes on page 5. Grading is completed for Senior (2016-19) only, so far. Similar principles apply all the way down the grades. While it was considered to compile all teams in one table with two points for each championship win as referenced at Tuesday’s meeting, it has since been decided to ring-fence each grade insofar as it would not be fair for teams in lower grades to pass those above them. It was also decided that a win in the later stages of a Championship against stronger opposition should be valued more that for example, a First Round or relegation pay-off win.
Grading to form Grades of 12
When Clubs vote for Grading 1 (2019 performances only) or Grading 2 (2019 performances and cship results from 2016-19), it is worth considering the following.
If Grading 1 is chosen, teams in 2019 will play off for the places available in a Grade.
If Grading 2 is chosen, for example, 8 of the 12 places in Premier Senior for 2012 in both football and hurling will be allocated to the 2019 quarter-finalists (or less if divisions / colleges qualify for the quarter-finals.) The remaining places will be allocated to the highest ranked teams in terms of championship performances in the years 2018 to 2019.
While it is the final table after 2019 that will determine gradings, the rankings for Senior Championships across the last three years have been completed and are shown below. Points were awarded as follows, based on the results recorded on the Cork GAA website:
- 10 points for a Preliminary and/or First Round win
- 5 points for a Round 2 (backdoor) win or for a Relegation play-off win
- 20 Points for a Round 3 (or 2A) win
- 30 points for a Round 4 win
- 40 points for a Quarter-final win
- 80 points for a Semi-final win
- 120 points for a County Senior Final win
It was considered that points would be awarded for Premier Intermediate wins, until it was decided that no number of wins at a lower grade could equal a win at Senior level. While I mentioned at the meeting that half-points might be awarded, on further review it was decided that no team from a lower grade would "pass" a higher grade team. The current rankings for Senior teams (2016-18) are as follows:
Football | Club | Points | Hurling | Club | Points |
1 | St. Finbarr's | 475 | 1 | Glen Rovers | 310 |
2 | Nemo Rangers | 430 | 2 | Midleton | 280 |
3 | Carbery Rangers | 410 | 3 | Blackrock | 250 |
4 | Ballincollig | 245 | 4 | Erins Own | 230 |
5 | Castlehaven | 140 | 5 | Sarsfields | 140 |
6 | Valley Rovers | 130 | 6 | Douglas | 115 |
7 | Douglas | 55 | 7 | Na Piarsaigh | 110 |
8 | Bishopstown | 50 | 8 | St. Finbarr's | 90 |
9 | Carrigaline | 40 | 9 | Bandon | 70 |
10 | Clonakilty | 35 | 10 | Newtownshandrum | 65 |
11 | Ilen Rovers | 35 | 11 | Bishopstown | 65 |
12 | Newcestown | 35 | 12 | Ballymartle | 60 |
13 | Kiskeam | 25 | Newcestown | 60 | |
14 | St. Nicholas | 15 | 14 | Killeagh | 40 |
15 | O’ Donovan Rossa | 15 | 15 | Bride Rovers | 40 |
16 | Clyda Rovers | 10 | 16 | Ballyhea | 10 |
17 | Dohenys | 10 | 17 | Carrigtwohill | 10 |
18 | Mallow | 5 | 18 | Kanturk | 5 |
19 | Fermoy | 0 | 19 | Charleville | 0 |
Aghada | 15 |
Football Gradings
Hurling Gradings